Hi All, I have been following the thread below about speech to text, or voice recognition software like Dragon Naturally Speaking. Some very interesting points were made about the pros and cons of this type of AT. However, the latest post mentioned Structured Word Inquiry or Scientific Word Inquiry as a tool to help with learning to spell better. I am not familiar with this approach and not being a great speller myself, I thought I’d check it out. It looks interesting and the success in the post gives hope. I Googled it and found an article to get you started if you are interested. Check out http://www.wordworkskingston.com/WordWorks/Structured_Word_Inquiry.html. I’m not endorsing or promoting this idea, but I thought I’d just pass it along since many or our students struggle with spelling. I like the idea of using the meaning of words as an approach to spelling instead of a phonetic approach. I am sure that many of you out there know more about teaching spelling than I do, which isn’t much, so please feel free to enlighten me if this is a wackadoodle idea. I’m guessing it’s like other teaching strategies in that it works for some people, but maybe not everyone. Hope you find it interesting, Ike P.S. There are some great ideas about speech to text software and its use which, based on my experience as an AT specialist, I do think are right on target. (see thread below) Ike Presley, TVI, CLVT, CATIS National Project Manager American Foundation for the Blind 739 W. Peachtree St. N.W., Suite 250 Atlanta, GA 30308 404-525-2303 www.afb.org<http://www.afb.org/> Expanding possibilities for people with vision loss [Title: Facebook icon]<https://www.facebook.com/americanfoundationfortheblind> [Title: Twitter icon] <http://www.twitter.com/afb1921> [Title: Pinterest icon] <http://www.pinterest.com/afb1921/> [Title: YouTube icon] <https://www.youtube.com/user/afb1921> [Title: Donate Now - Description: Click on this link to donate to AFB]<https://www.afb.org/donate.aspx?action=fullform#content> Join us for the 21st Helen Keller Achievement Awards<http://www.afb.org/hkaa> Honoring Chris Downey, Architect; Google; and Netflix JW Marriott Essex House, NYC • June 15 [Photo of Helen Keller overlaid with words like "advocate," "peacemaker," "humanitarian," and "innovator. Text reads: Save the date. June 15.]<http://www.afb.org/hkaa> From: Quality Indicators for Assistive Technology [mailto:QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU] On Behalf Of Erin Sheldon Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 11:55 AM To: QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU Subject: Re: [QIAT] Speech to text vs. Handwriting Brandie, if keyboarding, she uses Co:Writer on her own laptop. If using STT, she uses regular school computers with Google docs with the Google speech recognition. Speaking out loud is tricky in many places (like a busy classroom) and there has been a learning curve, so I'm glad she has the option for both. Her spelling has improved enough that regular word prediction is often almost as good as Co:Writer, but in the beginning, only Co:Writer could figure out enough of her spelling attempts to offer the right options. We gave up on handwriting instruction a year or two ago, but then a dyslexia researcher (who himself has dyslexia and dysgraphia) turned us on to Real Script. She only uses a fountain pen (because it requires her to grasp the pen correctly or it won't write) and this alone has made a big difference. Real Script is based on Renaissance era script, not handwriting. For whatever reason, cursive was a huge struggle but Real Script has been fantastic. She is very motivated by it. Its completely different from any other handwriting program we've looked at. She is also finally making progress with spelling through an approach called Structured Word Inquiry (SWI). SWI downplays phonics because we can't sound out most words in the English language, and most of Ella's spelling mistakes reflected how she mis-heard the word in the first place. SWI focuses on word meaning and teaches families of words based on their shared orthographic root, not shared phonics. For example, the first family of words she studied was the base "sign", so she studied signature, assign, designed, resigning, etc. Her spelling list was all words with that shared history and base, and her spelling work was creating as many words as she could that shared that meaning and base. The bewildering world of English spelling suddenly makes sense when you realize that we spell words to express meaning, not to guide how to pronounce them. Her first SWI hypothesis was that patrol, patronus, and protect would all share a base because she felt they all sounded the same. So we investigated and learned they are very different words with very different histories, but she's never misspelled them again! And the SWI inquiry approach has created a safe space where she sees her spelling attempts as a hypothesis she can test by investigating the word, rather than a right/wrong mistake. As she learns these bases (like "sign") and how we add prefixes and suffixes to make new words, she can now create much more informed theories for how to spell a new word like "designated". She is attending to spelling patterns now, and seeing the common threads between words, in a way that never "stuck" with phonics instruction. Its taken several years but I feel like we are finally really making progress. Thanks! Erin On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Brandie Cox <bcox@heartlandaea.org<mailto:bcox@heartlandaea.org>> wrote: Erin, What is working for your 10 year old in the classroom now? On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Erin Sheldon <sheldon.erin@gmail.com<mailto:sheldon.erin@gmail.com>> wrote: One last comment: I think the role of the SLP is very important when figuring out this question about when to use AT for writing. My 10 year old appears to be a strong reader and has excellent comprehension. She masks her dyslexia well. Her grade 2 teachers were willing to consider she had a handwriting issue (despite 3 years of Handwriting Without Tears) but thought it was laughable she had any other LD. Dyslexia runs in my family and I was confident she had it. She is a sight word reader with a massive sight word vocabulary, but could not hear rhyme or identify the vowel she heard in simple CVC words. I knew she would hit the higher grades and be unable to continue to function if we didn't recognize the underlying language disorder. The teachers and the OT did not have the training to recognize the language-based nature of her struggles. We have since confirmed she is both dyslexic and gifted. Her dysgraphia is a symptom of her dyslexia, not a stand-alone issue. Simply treating the dysgraphia as an isolated issue would have been a mistake. She doesn't just make lots of spelling errors, she makes classic dyslexic errors in her spelling. An SLP with strong training in dyslexia could see the red flags in her spelling and could see that she did not have a simple developmental spelling issue that just required more intensive instruction. How she hears sounds (and the sounds she doesn't hear) is directly reflected in her spelling. The OT felt all she needed as more handwriting instruction and a keyboard, but the teachers felt even keyboarding was over-kill. Given how well she masks her dyslexia, we could have delayed support far too long. It was much more of a struggle than it should have been to get strong assessment. I'm glad I didn't accept an OT's recommendation but kept pushing. Erin On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:51 AM, Susan Tipton <Susan.tipton@cfisd.net<mailto:Susan.tipton@cfisd.net>> wrote: That worked! I had to go to the website because the link on Katherine’s website did not work. Thank you so much. [cid:image009.png@01D2A30F.FA6B7930] Susan Tipton Assistive Technology Specialist Falcon Annex 11330 Falcon Houston, TX 77064 281-897-6493<tel:(281)%20897-6493> susan.tipton@cfisd.net<mailto:susan.tipton@cfisd.net> From: Quality Indicators for Assistive Technology [mailto:QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU<mailto:QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU>] On Behalf Of Eleanor Cawley MSOTRL Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 9:46 AM To: QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU<mailto:QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU> Subject: Re: [QIAT] Speech to text vs. Handwriting Try Universal. It was her publisher and I just spoke with Katherine Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone ----- Reply message ----- From: "Susan Tipton" <Susan.tipton@CFISD.NET<mailto:Susan.tipton@CFISD.NET>> To: "QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU<mailto:QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU>" <QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU<mailto:QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU>> Subject: [QIAT] Speech to text vs. Handwriting Date: Wed, Mar 22, 2017 10:35 AM Her book is not available at this time. I don’t know why. I followed the link on her website, checked on Amazon and looked on abebooks.com<http://abebooks.com>. [cid:image010.png@01D2A30F.FA6B7930] Susan Tipton Assistive Technology Specialist Falcon Annex 11330 Falcon Houston, TX 77064 281-897-6493<tel:(281)%20897-6493> susan.tipton@cfisd.net<mailto:susan.tipton@cfisd.net> From: Quality Indicators for Assistive Technology [mailto:QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU] On Behalf Of Eleanor Cawley MSOTRL Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:46 AM To: QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU<mailto:QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU> Subject: Re: [QIAT] Speech to text vs. Handwriting Here is another thought. I would look at which writing program the OT's are using. There are a number of programs out there. Katherine Collmer wrote a book that uses Rubrics and is specifically geared toward remediating handwriting difficulties. That may be an option. Just look for a website called Handwriting with Katherine and her book will be there. As an OT, I would much prefer to look for ways to remediate handwriting concerns prior to recommending speech to text. I feel that there should be a structure to the way I teach handwriting and the way I assess any difficulties. Eleanor On Mar 22, 2017, at 9:37 AM, Kristen M. Weber <WebeKris@SHENET.ORG<mailto:WebeKris@SHENET.ORG>> wrote: Thank you so much for the feedback I have received! I greatly appreciate the time each of you has taken to respond. We have great OT’s in our district but I’m at a point where I think that our OT’s may be recommending speech to text as a way to dismiss students from therapy due to lack of progress. I’m sure they are frustrated and I don’t blame them for wanting to look at technology. Now, I may be incorrect in my thinking which is why I wanted to weigh all options and keep an open mind. I also want to provide whatever I can to make a student successful. As the AT person in my district I always do my own assessment and try to recommend handwriting for small tasks and computer for anything requiring longer than a three sentence response if I feel the computer is the way to go. I personally always make attempts to look at less restrictive options such as word prediction, text to speech and spell check first…… but we utilize Chromebooks here and the speech to text is a built in option so teachers and OT’s default students to it. Then I get e-mails saying this student ‘needs’ this and can I add it to an IEP. It sounds like there are mixed opinions about the right age to implement this kind of technology and to be perfectly honest I’m pretty split in my opinion as well. Part of me thinks the earlier the better as early intervention in other areas has profound research to support its effectiveness. Then the other part of me says, geez 3rd and 4th grade is way too early to say this student needs this type of restrictive accommodation and lets dismiss him/her from OT. Kristen Weber, M.S. CCC-SLP Speech Language Pathologist Assistive Technology Specialist High School West 881-0330 ext. 62439 From: Quality Indicators for Assistive Technology [mailto:QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU] On Behalf Of Eleanor Cawley MSOTRL Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 9:21 AM To: QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU<mailto:QIAT@LSV.UKY.EDU> Subject: Re: [QIAT] Speech to text vs. Handwriting Hi Kristen, Boy do I have a lot to say on this! Parents often request speech to text for handwriting. I have been requested to teach speech to text as the go to on many occasions. I speak to the parents and the district and tell them that keyboarding is the way to go. Many errors can be made with speech to text programming which students then must correct. You are right in saying that the students may not have the cognitive abilities to organize their thoughts, at this young age. That should also be brought up. Of course, parents come back with "you will teach them." I agree with you wholeheartedly. I use "The written language production standards" as a back up to indicate the development of handwriting and keyboarding. I strongly push for keyboarding. I am an OT, I strongly believe in writing. I do request that those children having difficulty with Handwriting in the third and fourth grade be taught cursive, as well as keyboarding. This is horrible to say, but in my personal experience, many parents want the district to give their child a computer. I am a Microsoft girl myself but Google drive, Google Classroom, and Google docs can be accessed at home and at school without difficulty. It is not necessary for every student to have a computer. I have been told by many students that they are not allowed to touch the home computer. The same students request the type of computer that they want. Students have asked me to give them Macs and Surface Pros among other things. Some have even requested 2-1s, like the one that I carry. I often find that this goes to a sense of entitlement and not specific need. We need to be very careful about what we recommend because of the litigious society that we belong to. So in a nutshell, my recommendations always include keyboarding and instruction in cursive. I also bring up how embarrassed using speech to text programming in the midst of a Classroom can be to their child. I tell them that students need assistance with this programming and that generally means that the student is removed from the classroom for much, if not all, of the training and their work when using this type of technology. It is not the magic bullet that many parents feel it is. When faced with this conundrum, I feel that it is up to us to explain. I use speech to text to myself. In fact, I am dictating this reply. Several times I have stopped dictating so that I may correct errors. Even one as skilled as myself needs to correct the errors. Even for me, it is not my magic bullet. More work needs to be done. I truly don't know if there's any research out there, I just feel that parents need to understand the commonsense. Eleanor Cawley On Mar 22, 2017, at 8:38 AM, Kristen M. Weber <WebeKris@SHENET.ORG<mailto:WebeKris@SHENET.ORG>> wrote: Hi Friends, In my district I am getting continuous requests for permission to use and add speech to text software on IEP’s for students in 3rd and 4th grade. I am a speech path not an OT so I feel like it is overstepping my bounds to speak too closely about handwriting use at that age. However, I personally feel that 3rd and 4th grade is way too young to give up on handwriting practice or even to allow that kind of restrictive accommodation (unless of course they have a physical reason such as missing a hand). Not to mention that using speech to text requires a student to organize his thoughts and speak clearly which most of these struggling students cannot do. Can I have some feedback? If anyone has any research to support one way or another I’d love it. What do you do in these situations? Thanks in advance for your help. Kristen Weber, M.S. CCC-SLP Speech Language Pathologist Assistive Technology Specialist High School West 881-0330 ext. 62439