Holly, do you find that people in the senior student age range get short-changed when it comes to having technology available to them?  I do.  And another issue I have is that people who are not planning to go to or return to work are going to have difficulty even getting skills of blindness/personal adjustment training because for the federal government, it’s all about employment.  You cannot employ a person who has not been taught the necessary skills to live independently or live as much independently as possible with a visual disability.  Oh, I’m getting on my soap box again!

Marcie Brink-Chaney CVRT CATIS
Visually Impaired Services
University Health Center
Detroit Receiving Hospital
Detroit Medical Center
Address:  4201 St. Antoine
Detroit MI 48201
Phone:  (313)745-4131
Email:  mbrink-c@dmc.orgmailto:mbrink-c@dmc.org
From: Holly Kaczmarski [mailto:kaczmarskiholly58@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 2:24 PM
To: Brink-Chaney, Marcie A
Cc: David Rosenkoetter; Patricia Rosen; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [AERNet] No longer shortage of TVIs??

This is why I do not work in the school system's as a TV I. There are too many rules and regulations and they are not teaching children properly, not teaching them to use a slate and stylus, not teaching them ZoomText and all the other technology items that they need to use in real life.

I work with adults. I can teach them anything that I think they need to know and that includes slate and stylus, ZoomText, JAWS, and anything else that they need to know including Travel Training.

Adults are often left out in the grand scheme of things, so I personally chose to work with adults, people usually over 55 or 60 years of age, who have lost vision due to medical issues or age-related conditions. I work for a private nonprofit agency and we teach people what they need to know not what the regulations say that we have to do.

I agree with your comment on not showing a sighted student how to use a pencil and paper because they can always use technology. This is totally wrong, so blind and low-vision students must be taught to use a slate and stylus.

I agree with you 100%.
Holly Kaczmarski
Columbia River services for the Blind and Visually Impaired

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Samsung Galaxy S7 smartphone

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 10:53 AM Brink-Chaney, Marcie A <MBrink-C@dmc.orgmailto:MBrink-C@dmc.org> wrote:
This brings up another couple of concerns of mine.  I'm concerned that without enough TVI's there is the problem of expecting the TVI's who are currently working to make do and not be able to give significant instruction to each student.  With the expanded core curriculum, it is not necessary for TVI's to just teach students to use technology. It is necessary for them to have the time to teach daily living skills, socialization skills... And that doesn't even cover that if a student could lose more vision and find that the use of Braille will be critical to be educated,
TVI's may just teach them to use print because of the lack of time.  Also, I have observed that students who are totally blind have not been taught to use a slate and stylus to write braille.  Not every person can afford a Braille writer or a notetaker to write.  To me, it's like saying that it is not necessary for a student who is sighted to learn to use a pencil or pen and paper because they can use a lap top computer or a tablet to write.  And learning to use an abacus is learning to do math because it is not like using a calculator where you just enter in the numbers and don't actually do the math yourself. Do they even teach it any more?

Also, I have found that low vision students have not been taught to use assistive technology such as Zoom Text because they have just been taught to use the magnification on their tablets. I am of the opinion that everyone should be taught to use anything that will make it easier to access the information they need to learn and to be successful in this world.

Marcie Brink-Chaney CVRT CATIS
Visually Impaired Services
University Health Center
Detroit Receiving Hospital
Detroit Medical Center
Address:  4201 St. Antoine
Detroit MI 48201
Phone:  (313)745-4131
Email:  mbrink-c@dmc.orgmailto:mbrink-c@dmc.org
-----Original Message-----
From: AERNet [mailto:aernet-bounces@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet-bounces@lists.aerbvi.org] On Behalf Of David Rosenkoetter
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 9:45 AM
To: Patricia Rosen
Cc: aernet@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [AERNet] No longer shortage of TVIs??

While I'm a VRT student, I have classmates who are studying to be TVI's. So, this post is interesting to me.

Patti, you mentioned whether or not school districts are accounting for their students havingCVI and if they are assuming technological advances can cover what TVI's have been doing for students.
Unfortunately, it seems our public school systems seem to be in the mode of cost cutting, which really does them and their students all-around in. So, their not taking into considetration the amount of students with CVI would make sense. Or, some school systems may be tweeking their classifications of students.

One of the dark downsides of cost cutting in education I s a school district's mindset toward minimalism. They will do just enough to handle the caseload of students with varying degrees of visual impairment so as to meet the "national standards" but nothing more.
Unfortunately, that's happening across the board with all students as you probably know firsthand.

Where the schools lack in understanding is how much more holistic your work is as TVI's. It's not just sitting with a student during a test or making sure stuff's gotten in adaptive formats. My understanding is that it involves communication with parents/other guardians along with students. It's providing a wrap-around network that will aid the student's cognative and behavioral livelihood as he/she progresses grade by grade toward independence in college or the workforce.
Please, correct my assumptions here if I'm off-base.

On 9/14/18, Patricia Rosen <pkowal52@gmail.commailto:pkowal52@gmail.com> wrote:

You are subscribed to AERNet, The Association for Education and Rehabilitation of the Blind and Visually Impaired Listserv.

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Marcie,

This is exactly my point. If a person is not going to be "employable", due
to the states' ideas that if a person is over 55 or 60 they are not going
to work, so they do not get help from the state of Washington other than
the independent living older blind program which is the bare minimum help
that helps them live in their homes but nothing concerning education or
employment even though many people in their 60s and 70s are still working.

This is why I am getting a Master's degree so that I can be Certified and
work with more clients. I work with people who are college-age and or 55
and that is my only clientele because they need help and they need to be
independent and many of them are working still in their 70s.

I will also get off my soapbox now :-)

Holly

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Samsung Galaxy S7 smartphone

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 11:44 AM Brink-Chaney, Marcie A MBrink-C@dmc.org
wrote:

Hello Diane,
Please let the TVIs in your area who are being reassigned know that if they
want TVI work, we have work! We currently have openings for 7 TVIs in
northern California:
https://www.edjoin.org/Home/JobPosting/780750

According to Dataquest there are 3478 blind and low vision children in
California and according to  Teacher Supply in California- A Report to the
Legislature Annual Report  2016-2017, April 2018, there are 27 certified
TVIs. This means the average caseload is 129 students in California.
We see this need and are extremely desperate for TVIs.
Please pass our job opening to everyone you know!
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 9:30 PM, dmoshenrose@ca.rr.com wrote:

All,
The funding issue has been on my mind since the time I transferred
from the Indiana School for the Blind to Noblesville High School as a
student. Back then, in the late 1980s, I did a speech for one of my
classes on the cost of adaptive technology and for school districts to
employ/contract with vision professionals. Of course, classmates were
stunned and the couple teachers who heard it were concerned--including
my then itinerant TVI. Decades later now, we are still getting similar
responses--concerned parents and students and wide-eyed amazement.
It's a reminder to me, a future CVRT, that we vision professionals
need to be on our collaborative toes so that our students (children or
adults) can go from learning coping strategies to being well-rounded
and self-advocating students to working in mainstream society.

And, along the way, I think it might fall on our shoulders to reassure
the school districts, local VR offices, et al that going all-out for
each and every student and their family is worth the time, money and
effort involved.

Hey, if guide dog schools can get the funding for matching up working
teams--and I pray that continues all the more--provision for VI
students' low-tech and assistive tech needs shouldn't be railroaded to
the backburner.

David Rosenkoetter
davidrosenkoetter260@gmail.com
(260) 206-6075

On 9/14/18, Holly Kaczmarski kaczmarskiholly58@gmail.com wrote:

9-16-18

No one responded that they also have too many TVIs for jobs available. Many are concerned about not enough funding for comprehensive services to students with visual impairments and students with CVI not being identified and served. I guess that the student populations decreasing may  just a local issue that I've observed.
Thanks for everyone's responses,
Diane, TVI

---- David Rosenkoetter davidrosenkoetter260@gmail.com wrote: 9-14-18

The funding issue has been on my mind since the time I transferred
from the Indiana School for the Blind to Noblesville High School as a
student. Back then, in the late 1980s, I did a speech for one of my
classes on the cost of adaptive technology and for school districts to
employ/contract with vision professionals. Of course, classmates were
stunned and the couple teachers who heard it were concerned--including
my then itinerant TVI. Decades later now, we are still getting similar
responses--concerned parents and students and wide-eyed amazement.
It's a reminder to me, a future CVRT, that we vision professionals
need to be on our collaborative toes so that our students (children or
adults) can go from learning coping strategies to being well-rounded
and self-advocating students to working in mainstream society.

And, along the way, I think it might fall on our shoulders to reassure
the school districts, local VR offices, et al that going all-out for
each and every student and their family is worth the time, money and
effort involved.

Hey, if guide dog schools can get the funding for matching up working
teams--and I pray that continues all the more--provision for VI
students' low-tech and assistive tech needs shouldn't be railroaded to
the backburner.

David Rosenkoetter
davidrosenkoetter260@gmail.com
(260) 206-6075

On 9/14/18, Holly Kaczmarski kaczmarskiholly58@gmail.com wrote:

You are subscribed to AERNet, The Association for Education and Rehabilitation of the Blind and Visually Impaired Listserv.

To post a message to all the list members, send an email to aernet@lists.aerbvi.org.

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Good Morning,

Although my degree is in teaching visually impaired children, I work at a program that primarily works with adults.  As Braille instructor, I concur with the issues both Marcie and Holly bring up.  Don’t get me started on this not teaching the use of the slate and stylus.  Not only is a notetaker or Braillewriter not affordable for most of the people we serve, you cannot depend on stat rehabilitation agencies to provide such equipment.

Also, there needs to be enough time for a person to learn enough Braille or other skills to meet their needs.  Not everyone (no matter what age they are) is a fast learner.  The number of learners with physical and/or other issues that may affect learning is increasing.  We must be able to accommodate these needs.

I will go for now so that you don’t have to put up with another soapbox.

Pauline Smith, TVI
Braille Instructor

From: AERNet [mailto:aernet-bounces@lists.aerbvi.org] On Behalf Of Holly Kaczmarski
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 2:24 PM
To: Brink-Chaney, Marcie A
Cc: aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [AERNet] No longer shortage of TVIs??

This is why I do not work in the school system's as a TV I. There are too many rules and regulations and they are not teaching children properly, not teaching them to use a slate and stylus, not teaching them ZoomText and all the other technology items that they need to use in real life.

I work with adults. I can teach them anything that I think they need to know and that includes slate and stylus, ZoomText, JAWS, and anything else that they need to know including Travel Training.

Adults are often left out in the grand scheme of things, so I personally chose to work with adults, people usually over 55 or 60 years of age, who have lost vision due to medical issues or age-related conditions. I work for a private nonprofit agency and we teach people what they need to know not what the regulations say that we have to do.

I agree with your comment on not showing a sighted student how to use a pencil and paper because they can always use technology. This is totally wrong, so blind and low-vision students must be taught to use a slate and stylus.

I agree with you 100%.
Holly Kaczmarski
Columbia River services for the Blind and Visually Impaired

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Samsung Galaxy S7 smartphone

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 10:53 AM Brink-Chaney, Marcie A <MBrink-C@dmc.orgmailto:MBrink-C@dmc.org> wrote:
This brings up another couple of concerns of mine.  I'm concerned that without enough TVI's there is the problem of expecting the TVI's who are currently working to make do and not be able to give significant instruction to each student.  With the expanded core curriculum, it is not necessary for TVI's to just teach students to use technology. It is necessary for them to have the time to teach daily living skills, socialization skills... And that doesn't even cover that if a student could lose more vision and find that the use of Braille will be critical to be educated,
TVI's may just teach them to use print because of the lack of time.  Also, I have observed that students who are totally blind have not been taught to use a slate and stylus to write braille.  Not every person can afford a Braille writer or a notetaker to write.  To me, it's like saying that it is not necessary for a student who is sighted to learn to use a pencil or pen and paper because they can use a lap top computer or a tablet to write.  And learning to use an abacus is learning to do math because it is not like using a calculator where you just enter in the numbers and don't actually do the math yourself. Do they even teach it any more?

Also, I have found that low vision students have not been taught to use assistive technology such as Zoom Text because they have just been taught to use the magnification on their tablets. I am of the opinion that everyone should be taught to use anything that will make it easier to access the information they need to learn and to be successful in this world.

Marcie Brink-Chaney CVRT CATIS
Visually Impaired Services
University Health Center
Detroit Receiving Hospital
Detroit Medical Center
Address:  4201 St. Antoine
Detroit MI 48201
Phone:  (313)745-4131
Email:  mbrink-c@dmc.orgmailto:mbrink-c@dmc.org
-----Original Message-----
From: AERNet [mailto:aernet-bounces@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet-bounces@lists.aerbvi.org] On Behalf Of David Rosenkoetter
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 9:45 AM
To: Patricia Rosen
Cc: aernet@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [AERNet] No longer shortage of TVIs??

While I'm a VRT student, I have classmates who are studying to be TVI's. So, this post is interesting to me.

Patti, you mentioned whether or not school districts are accounting for their students havingCVI and if they are assuming technological advances can cover what TVI's have been doing for students.
Unfortunately, it seems our public school systems seem to be in the mode of cost cutting, which really does them and their students all-around in. So, their not taking into considetration the amount of students with CVI would make sense. Or, some school systems may be tweeking their classifications of students.

One of the dark downsides of cost cutting in education I s a school district's mindset toward minimalism. They will do just enough to handle the caseload of students with varying degrees of visual impairment so as to meet the "national standards" but nothing more.
Unfortunately, that's happening across the board with all students as you probably know firsthand.

Where the schools lack in understanding is how much more holistic your work is as TVI's. It's not just sitting with a student during a test or making sure stuff's gotten in adaptive formats. My understanding is that it involves communication with parents/other guardians along with students. It's providing a wrap-around network that will aid the student's cognative and behavioral livelihood as he/she progresses grade by grade toward independence in college or the workforce.
Please, correct my assumptions here if I'm off-base.

On 9/14/18, Patricia Rosen <pkowal52@gmail.commailto:pkowal52@gmail.com> wrote:

You are subscribed to AERNet, The Association for Education and Rehabilitation of the Blind and Visually Impaired Listserv.

To post a message to all the list members, send an email to aernet@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet@lists.aerbvi.org.

Address list requests to:  aernet-request@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet-request@lists.aerbvi.org

To unsubscribe from this list, go to http://lists.aerbvi.org/mailman/listinfo/aernet_lists.aerbvi.org and follow instructions to unsubscribe. Go to the same address to access the list archives.

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This message (including any attachments) is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the message (including any attachments) and notify the originator that you received the message in error. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tenet Healthcare Corporation.

You are subscribed to AERNet, The Association for Education and Rehabilitation of the Blind and Visually Impaired Listserv.

To post a message to all the list members, send an email to aernet@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet@lists.aerbvi.org.

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This message (including any attachments) is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the message (including any attachments) and notify the originator that you received the message in error. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tenet Healthcare Corporation.

Holly, you mention providing Travel Training in your email... are you saying you are providing O&M instruction to adults as a TVI?

Kevin

From: AERNet aernet-bounces@lists.aerbvi.org on behalf of Holly Kaczmarski kaczmarskiholly58@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 1:24:28 PM
To: Brink-Chaney, Marcie A
Cc: aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [AERNet] No longer shortage of TVIs??

This is why I do not work in the school system's as a TV I. There are too many rules and regulations and they are not teaching children properly, not teaching them to use a slate and stylus, not teaching them ZoomText and all the other technology items that they need to use in real life.

I work with adults. I can teach them anything that I think they need to know and that includes slate and stylus, ZoomText, JAWS, and anything else that they need to know including Travel Training.

Adults are often left out in the grand scheme of things, so I personally chose to work with adults, people usually over 55 or 60 years of age, who have lost vision due to medical issues or age-related conditions. I work for a private nonprofit agency and we teach people what they need to know not what the regulations say that we have to do.

I agree with your comment on not showing a sighted student how to use a pencil and paper because they can always use technology. This is totally wrong, so blind and low-vision students must be taught to use a slate and stylus.

I agree with you 100%.

Holly Kaczmarski
Columbia River services for the Blind and Visually Impaired

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Samsung Galaxy S7 smartphone

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 10:53 AM Brink-Chaney, Marcie A <MBrink-C@dmc.orgmailto:MBrink-C@dmc.org> wrote:
This brings up another couple of concerns of mine.  I'm concerned that without enough TVI's there is the problem of expecting the TVI's who are currently working to make do and not be able to give significant instruction to each student.  With the expanded core curriculum, it is not necessary for TVI's to just teach students to use technology. It is necessary for them to have the time to teach daily living skills, socialization skills... And that doesn't even cover that if a student could lose more vision and find that the use of Braille will be critical to be educated,
TVI's may just teach them to use print because of the lack of time.  Also, I have observed that students who are totally blind have not been taught to use a slate and stylus to write braille.  Not every person can afford a Braille writer or a notetaker to write.  To me, it's like saying that it is not necessary for a student who is sighted to learn to use a pencil or pen and paper because they can use a lap top computer or a tablet to write.  And learning to use an abacus is learning to do math because it is not like using a calculator where you just enter in the numbers and don't actually do the math yourself. Do they even teach it any more?

Also, I have found that low vision students have not been taught to use assistive technology such as Zoom Text because they have just been taught to use the magnification on their tablets. I am of the opinion that everyone should be taught to use anything that will make it easier to access the information they need to learn and to be successful in this world.

Marcie Brink-Chaney CVRT CATIS
Visually Impaired Services
University Health Center
Detroit Receiving Hospital
Detroit Medical Center
Address:  4201 St. Antoine
Detroit MI 48201
Phone:  (313)745-4131
Email:  mbrink-c@dmc.orgmailto:mbrink-c@dmc.org
-----Original Message-----
From: AERNet [mailto:aernet-bounces@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet-bounces@lists.aerbvi.org] On Behalf Of David Rosenkoetter
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 9:45 AM
To: Patricia Rosen
Cc: aernet@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [AERNet] No longer shortage of TVIs??

While I'm a VRT student, I have classmates who are studying to be TVI's. So, this post is interesting to me.

Patti, you mentioned whether or not school districts are accounting for their students havingCVI and if they are assuming technological advances can cover what TVI's have been doing for students.
Unfortunately, it seems our public school systems seem to be in the mode of cost cutting, which really does them and their students all-around in. So, their not taking into considetration the amount of students with CVI would make sense. Or, some school systems may be tweeking their classifications of students.

One of the dark downsides of cost cutting in education I s a school district's mindset toward minimalism. They will do just enough to handle the caseload of students with varying degrees of visual impairment so as to meet the "national standards" but nothing more.
Unfortunately, that's happening across the board with all students as you probably know firsthand.

Where the schools lack in understanding is how much more holistic your work is as TVI's. It's not just sitting with a student during a test or making sure stuff's gotten in adaptive formats. My understanding is that it involves communication with parents/other guardians along with students. It's providing a wrap-around network that will aid the student's cognative and behavioral livelihood as he/she progresses grade by grade toward independence in college or the workforce.
Please, correct my assumptions here if I'm off-base.

On 9/14/18, Patricia Rosen <pkowal52@gmail.commailto:pkowal52@gmail.com> wrote:

You are subscribed to AERNet, The Association for Education and Rehabilitation of the Blind and Visually Impaired Listserv.

To post a message to all the list members, send an email to aernet@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet@lists.aerbvi.org.

Address list requests to:  aernet-request@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet-request@lists.aerbvi.org

To unsubscribe from this list, go to http://lists.aerbvi.org/mailman/listinfo/aernet_lists.aerbvi.org and follow instructions to unsubscribe. Go to the same address to access the list archives.

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This message (including any attachments) is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the message (including any attachments) and notify the originator that you received the message in error. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tenet Healthcare Corporation.

You are subscribed to AERNet, The Association for Education and Rehabilitation of the Blind and Visually Impaired Listserv.

To post a message to all the list members, send an email to aernet@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet@lists.aerbvi.org.

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I agree with you totally about the slate and stylist, expensive Brailling
equipment, technological equipment that people cannot afford, and the fact
that people are different types of learners. Some learn fast and some do
not and it does not have anything to do with age.

Some young children are slow learners and some adults are fast learners.

Thank you for expressing your opinion to all of us. I appreciate your
Insight.

Holly

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Samsung Galaxy S7 smartphone

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 5:19 AM Smith, Pauline L PSmith4@dmc.org wrote: