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Re: [AERNet] [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI?

GA
Grace Ambrose Zaken
Mon, Feb 6, 2017 1:08 PM

I have seen toddlers with VI and no other disability wearing lower leg, ankle and foot pieces. I assume there must be a literature base to support this in simply VI, I am only finding for those with CP, though.

Does this help you help me?

Thanks!

Grace

From: OrientationAndMobility [mailto:orientationandmobility-bounces@lists.blindcanadians.ca] On Behalf Of Jessica lampert
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 11:01 AM
To: Orientation and Mobility; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI?

Grace, can you be more specific about what information you're after?

On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:44 AM, Grace Ambrose Zaken gambrose@hunter.cuny.edu wrote:

Dear listers:

I am seeking research on the practice of PTs placing orthotics and prosthetics on legs/feet of toddlers and preschoolers with visual impairment. I have not been able to find anything – am I looking in the wrong place??

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks!

Grace

Grace Ambrose Zaken, Ed.D.

Project Coordinator RT and O&M Programs

Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments

Department of Special Education 916W

Hunter College of The City University of New York

695 Park Avenue

New York, NY 10065

212-772-4741

Hunter Graduate Admissions webpage (deadline March 15):

http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/graduateadmissions

Top 5 reasons to choose Hunter Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb_zsXG0Oks

Video for NYS Teachers to Learn more about the ITI program

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhJaBgAoe3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhJaBgAoe3k&t=6s &t=6s


The operators of this mailing list are not responsible for material posted on this list and the views expressed are solely those of their respective authors. Messages are posted as they were intended by the author!

To unsubscribe or change your subscription options, visit:

http://lists.blindcanadians.ca/mailman/listinfo/orientationandmobility_lists.blindcanadians.ca

I have seen toddlers with VI and no other disability wearing lower leg, ankle and foot pieces. I assume there must be a literature base to support this in simply VI, I am only finding for those with CP, though. Does this help you help me? Thanks! Grace From: OrientationAndMobility [mailto:orientationandmobility-bounces@lists.blindcanadians.ca] On Behalf Of Jessica lampert Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 11:01 AM To: Orientation and Mobility; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org Subject: Re: [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI? Grace, can you be more specific about what information you're after? On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:44 AM, Grace Ambrose Zaken <gambrose@hunter.cuny.edu> wrote: Dear listers: I am seeking research on the practice of PTs placing orthotics and prosthetics on legs/feet of toddlers and preschoolers with visual impairment. I have not been able to find anything – am I looking in the wrong place?? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks! Grace Grace Ambrose Zaken, Ed.D. Project Coordinator RT and O&M Programs Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments Department of Special Education 916W Hunter College of The City University of New York 695 Park Avenue New York, NY 10065 212-772-4741 Hunter Graduate Admissions webpage (deadline March 15): http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/graduateadmissions Top 5 reasons to choose Hunter Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb_zsXG0Oks Video for NYS Teachers to Learn more about the ITI program https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhJaBgAoe3k <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhJaBgAoe3k&t=6s> &t=6s _______________________________________________ The operators of this mailing list are not responsible for material posted on this list and the views expressed are solely those of their respective authors. Messages are posted as they were intended by the author! To unsubscribe or change your subscription options, visit: http://lists.blindcanadians.ca/mailman/listinfo/orientationandmobility_lists.blindcanadians.ca
MC
Michelle Clyne
Mon, Feb 6, 2017 2:30 PM

Grace, are you saying if the children did not have visual impairment, they would not have been given orthotics?

Michelle Clyne

From: OandM [mailto:oandm-bounces@lists.aerbvi.org] On Behalf Of Grace Ambrose Zaken
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 7:08 AM
To: 'Orientation and Mobility'; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [OandM] [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI?

I have seen toddlers with VI and no other disability wearing lower leg, ankle and foot pieces. I assume there must be a literature base to support this in simply VI, I am only finding for those with CP, though.
Does this help you help me?
Thanks!
Grace

From: OrientationAndMobility [mailto:orientationandmobility-bounces@lists.blindcanadians.ca] On Behalf Of Jessica lampert
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 11:01 AM
To: Orientation and Mobility; oandm@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.orgmailto:aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI?

Grace, can you be more specific about what information you're after?

On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:44 AM, Grace Ambrose Zaken <gambrose@hunter.cuny.edumailto:gambrose@hunter.cuny.edu> wrote:

Dear listers:
I am seeking research on the practice of PTs placing orthotics and prosthetics on legs/feet of toddlers and preschoolers with visual impairment. I have not been able to find anything – am I looking in the wrong place??
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
Grace

Grace Ambrose Zaken, Ed.D.
Project Coordinator RT and O&M Programs
Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments
Department of Special Education 916W
Hunter College of The City University of New York
695 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10065
212-772-4741

Hunter Graduate Admissions webpage (deadline March 15):
http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/graduateadmissions
Top 5 reasons to choose Hunter Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb_zsXG0Oks

Video for NYS Teachers to Learn more about the ITI program
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhJaBgAoe3k&t=6s


The operators of this mailing list are not responsible for material posted on this list and the views expressed are solely those of their respective authors. Messages are posted as they were intended by the author!

To unsubscribe or change your subscription options, visit:

http://lists.blindcanadians.ca/mailman/listinfo/orientationandmobility_lists.blindcanadians.ca

Grace, are you saying if the children did not have visual impairment, they would not have been given orthotics? Michelle Clyne From: OandM [mailto:oandm-bounces@lists.aerbvi.org] On Behalf Of Grace Ambrose Zaken Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 7:08 AM To: 'Orientation and Mobility'; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org Subject: Re: [OandM] [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI? I have seen toddlers with VI and no other disability wearing lower leg, ankle and foot pieces. I assume there must be a literature base to support this in simply VI, I am only finding for those with CP, though. Does this help you help me? Thanks! Grace From: OrientationAndMobility [mailto:orientationandmobility-bounces@lists.blindcanadians.ca] On Behalf Of Jessica lampert Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 11:01 AM To: Orientation and Mobility; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org<mailto:oandm@lists.aerbvi.org>; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org<mailto:aernet@lists.aerbvi.org> Subject: Re: [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI? Grace, can you be more specific about what information you're after? On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:44 AM, Grace Ambrose Zaken <gambrose@hunter.cuny.edu<mailto:gambrose@hunter.cuny.edu>> wrote: Dear listers: I am seeking research on the practice of PTs placing orthotics and prosthetics on legs/feet of toddlers and preschoolers with visual impairment. I have not been able to find anything – am I looking in the wrong place?? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks! Grace Grace Ambrose Zaken, Ed.D. Project Coordinator RT and O&M Programs Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments Department of Special Education 916W Hunter College of The City University of New York 695 Park Avenue New York, NY 10065 212-772-4741 Hunter Graduate Admissions webpage (deadline March 15): http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/graduateadmissions Top 5 reasons to choose Hunter Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb_zsXG0Oks Video for NYS Teachers to Learn more about the ITI program https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhJaBgAoe3k&t=6s _______________________________________________ The operators of this mailing list are not responsible for material posted on this list and the views expressed are solely those of their respective authors. Messages are posted as they were intended by the author! To unsubscribe or change your subscription options, visit: http://lists.blindcanadians.ca/mailman/listinfo/orientationandmobility_lists.blindcanadians.ca
G
Grace
Mon, Feb 6, 2017 3:14 PM

Basically.

Grace Ambrose Zaken, Ed.D.
Project Coordinator RT and O&M Programs
Hunter College of The City University of New York
695 Park Ave.
New York, NY 10016
212-772-4741
Top 5 Reasons to Choose Hunter Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairmentshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw6UrTzkdYE
Hunter Homepage: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/school-of-education/programs/graduate/special-education/blind-visually-impaired
Video on Hunter VRT and O&M Programs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lszZBf7jhs&feature=youtu.be
ITI Brochure: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/school-of-education/repository/files/ITI_BrochureWEB.pdf
Video on ITI TVI and O&M Programs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9fgfEnwMfc&feature=youtu.be

On Feb 6, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Michelle Clyne MClyne@philiprockcenter.org wrote:

Grace, are you saying if the children did not have visual impairment, they would not have been given orthotics?

Michelle Clyne

From: OandM [mailto:oandm-bounces@lists.aerbvi.org] On Behalf Of Grace Ambrose Zaken
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 7:08 AM
To: 'Orientation and Mobility'; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [OandM] [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI?

I have seen toddlers with VI and no other disability wearing lower leg, ankle and foot pieces. I assume there must be a literature base to support this in simply VI, I am only finding for those with CP, though.
Does this help you help me?
Thanks!
Grace

From: OrientationAndMobility [mailto:orientationandmobility-bounces@lists.blindcanadians.ca] On Behalf Of Jessica lampert
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 11:01 AM
To: Orientation and Mobility; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI?

Grace, can you be more specific about what information you're after?

On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:44 AM, Grace Ambrose Zaken gambrose@hunter.cuny.edu wrote:

Dear listers:
I am seeking research on the practice of PTs placing orthotics and prosthetics on legs/feet of toddlers and preschoolers with visual impairment. I have not been able to find anything – am I looking in the wrong place??
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
Grace

Grace Ambrose Zaken, Ed.D.
Project Coordinator RT and O&M Programs
Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments
Department of Special Education 916W
Hunter College of The City University of New York
695 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10065
212-772-4741

Hunter Graduate Admissions webpage (deadline March 15):
http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/graduateadmissions
Top 5 reasons to choose Hunter Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb_zsXG0Oks

Video for NYS Teachers to Learn more about the ITI program
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhJaBgAoe3k&t=6s


The operators of this mailing list are not responsible for material posted on this list and the views expressed are solely those of their respective authors. Messages are posted as they were intended by the author!

To unsubscribe or change your subscription options, visit:

http://lists.blindcanadians.ca/mailman/listinfo/orientationandmobility_lists.blindcanadians.ca

Basically. Grace Ambrose Zaken, Ed.D. Project Coordinator RT and O&M Programs Hunter College of The City University of New York 695 Park Ave. New York, NY 10016 212-772-4741 Top 5 Reasons to Choose Hunter Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairmentshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw6UrTzkdYE Hunter Homepage: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/school-of-education/programs/graduate/special-education/blind-visually-impaired Video on Hunter VRT and O&M Programs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lszZBf7jhs&feature=youtu.be ITI Brochure: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/school-of-education/repository/files/ITI_BrochureWEB.pdf Video on ITI TVI and O&M Programs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9fgfEnwMfc&feature=youtu.be > On Feb 6, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Michelle Clyne <MClyne@philiprockcenter.org> wrote: > > Grace, are you saying if the children did not have visual impairment, they would not have been given orthotics? > > Michelle Clyne > > From: OandM [mailto:oandm-bounces@lists.aerbvi.org] On Behalf Of Grace Ambrose Zaken > Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 7:08 AM > To: 'Orientation and Mobility'; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org > Subject: Re: [OandM] [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI? > > I have seen toddlers with VI and no other disability wearing lower leg, ankle and foot pieces. I assume there must be a literature base to support this in simply VI, I am only finding for those with CP, though. > Does this help you help me? > Thanks! > Grace > > > From: OrientationAndMobility [mailto:orientationandmobility-bounces@lists.blindcanadians.ca] On Behalf Of Jessica lampert > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 11:01 AM > To: Orientation and Mobility; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org > Subject: Re: [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI? > > Grace, can you be more specific about what information you're after? > > > On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:44 AM, Grace Ambrose Zaken <gambrose@hunter.cuny.edu> wrote: > > > Dear listers: > I am seeking research on the practice of PTs placing orthotics and prosthetics on legs/feet of toddlers and preschoolers with visual impairment. I have not been able to find anything – am I looking in the wrong place?? > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Many thanks! > Grace > > Grace Ambrose Zaken, Ed.D. > Project Coordinator RT and O&M Programs > Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments > Department of Special Education 916W > Hunter College of The City University of New York > 695 Park Avenue > New York, NY 10065 > 212-772-4741 > > Hunter Graduate Admissions webpage (deadline March 15): > http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/graduateadmissions > Top 5 reasons to choose Hunter Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb_zsXG0Oks > > Video for NYS Teachers to Learn more about the ITI program > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhJaBgAoe3k&t=6s > > > _______________________________________________ > The operators of this mailing list are not responsible for material posted on this list and the views expressed are solely those of their respective authors. Messages are posted as they were intended by the author! > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription options, visit: > > http://lists.blindcanadians.ca/mailman/listinfo/orientationandmobility_lists.blindcanadians.ca
AH
Amy Hadley
Mon, Feb 6, 2017 4:55 PM

As an OT trained in orthotics and a COMS I can say the orthotics are most likely due to low muscle tone, poor ankle alignment or poor arch development and never because of a VI!

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 6, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Grace gambrose@hunter.cuny.edu wrote:

Basically.

Grace Ambrose Zaken, Ed.D.
Project Coordinator RT and O&M Programs
Hunter College of The City University of New York
695 Park Ave.
New York, NY 10016
212-772-4741
Top 5 Reasons to Choose Hunter Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairmentshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw6UrTzkdYE
Hunter Homepage: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/school-of-education/programs/graduate/special-education/blind-visually-impaired
Video on Hunter VRT and O&M Programs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lszZBf7jhs&feature=youtu.be
ITI Brochure: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/school-of-education/repository/files/ITI_BrochureWEB.pdf
Video on ITI TVI and O&M Programs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9fgfEnwMfc&feature=youtu.be

On Feb 6, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Michelle Clyne MClyne@philiprockcenter.org wrote:

Grace, are you saying if the children did not have visual impairment, they would not have been given orthotics?

Michelle Clyne

From: OandM [mailto:oandm-bounces@lists.aerbvi.org] On Behalf Of Grace Ambrose Zaken
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 7:08 AM
To: 'Orientation and Mobility'; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [OandM] [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI?

I have seen toddlers with VI and no other disability wearing lower leg, ankle and foot pieces. I assume there must be a literature base to support this in simply VI, I am only finding for those with CP, though.
Does this help you help me?
Thanks!
Grace

From: OrientationAndMobility [mailto:orientationandmobility-bounces@lists.blindcanadians.ca] On Behalf Of Jessica lampert
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 11:01 AM
To: Orientation and Mobility; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org
Subject: Re: [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI?

Grace, can you be more specific about what information you're after?

On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:44 AM, Grace Ambrose Zaken gambrose@hunter.cuny.edu wrote:

Dear listers:
I am seeking research on the practice of PTs placing orthotics and prosthetics on legs/feet of toddlers and preschoolers with visual impairment. I have not been able to find anything – am I looking in the wrong place??
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
Grace

Grace Ambrose Zaken, Ed.D.
Project Coordinator RT and O&M Programs
Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments
Department of Special Education 916W
Hunter College of The City University of New York
695 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10065
212-772-4741

Hunter Graduate Admissions webpage (deadline March 15):
http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/graduateadmissions
Top 5 reasons to choose Hunter Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb_zsXG0Oks

Video for NYS Teachers to Learn more about the ITI program
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhJaBgAoe3k&t=6s


The operators of this mailing list are not responsible for material posted on this list and the views expressed are solely those of their respective authors. Messages are posted as they were intended by the author!

To unsubscribe or change your subscription options, visit:

http://lists.blindcanadians.ca/mailman/listinfo/orientationandmobility_lists.blindcanadians.ca

You are subscribed to AERNet, The Association for Education and Rehabilitation of the Blind and Visually Impaired Listserv.

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As an OT trained in orthotics and a COMS I can say the orthotics are most likely due to low muscle tone, poor ankle alignment or poor arch development and never because of a VI! Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 6, 2017, at 8:14 AM, Grace <gambrose@hunter.cuny.edu> wrote: > > Basically. > > Grace Ambrose Zaken, Ed.D. > Project Coordinator RT and O&M Programs > Hunter College of The City University of New York > 695 Park Ave. > New York, NY 10016 > 212-772-4741 > Top 5 Reasons to Choose Hunter Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairmentshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw6UrTzkdYE > Hunter Homepage: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/school-of-education/programs/graduate/special-education/blind-visually-impaired > Video on Hunter VRT and O&M Programs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lszZBf7jhs&feature=youtu.be > ITI Brochure: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/school-of-education/repository/files/ITI_BrochureWEB.pdf > Video on ITI TVI and O&M Programs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9fgfEnwMfc&feature=youtu.be > >> On Feb 6, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Michelle Clyne <MClyne@philiprockcenter.org> wrote: >> >> Grace, are you saying if the children did not have visual impairment, they would not have been given orthotics? >> >> Michelle Clyne >> >> From: OandM [mailto:oandm-bounces@lists.aerbvi.org] On Behalf Of Grace Ambrose Zaken >> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 7:08 AM >> To: 'Orientation and Mobility'; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org >> Subject: Re: [OandM] [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI? >> >> I have seen toddlers with VI and no other disability wearing lower leg, ankle and foot pieces. I assume there must be a literature base to support this in simply VI, I am only finding for those with CP, though. >> Does this help you help me? >> Thanks! >> Grace >> >> >> From: OrientationAndMobility [mailto:orientationandmobility-bounces@lists.blindcanadians.ca] On Behalf Of Jessica lampert >> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 11:01 AM >> To: Orientation and Mobility; oandm@lists.aerbvi.org; aernet@lists.aerbvi.org >> Subject: Re: [OrientationAndMobility] PT - Research on use of orthotics and prosthetics with toddlers who are VI? >> >> Grace, can you be more specific about what information you're after? >> >> >> On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:44 AM, Grace Ambrose Zaken <gambrose@hunter.cuny.edu> wrote: >> >> >> Dear listers: >> I am seeking research on the practice of PTs placing orthotics and prosthetics on legs/feet of toddlers and preschoolers with visual impairment. I have not been able to find anything – am I looking in the wrong place?? >> Any help would be greatly appreciated. >> Many thanks! >> Grace >> >> Grace Ambrose Zaken, Ed.D. >> Project Coordinator RT and O&M Programs >> Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments >> Department of Special Education 916W >> Hunter College of The City University of New York >> 695 Park Avenue >> New York, NY 10065 >> 212-772-4741 >> >> Hunter Graduate Admissions webpage (deadline March 15): >> http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/graduateadmissions >> Top 5 reasons to choose Hunter Programs in Blindness and Visual Impairments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb_zsXG0Oks >> >> Video for NYS Teachers to Learn more about the ITI program >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhJaBgAoe3k&t=6s >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The operators of this mailing list are not responsible for material posted on this list and the views expressed are solely those of their respective authors. Messages are posted as they were intended by the author! >> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription options, visit: >> >> http://lists.blindcanadians.ca/mailman/listinfo/orientationandmobility_lists.blindcanadians.ca >> > You are subscribed to AERNet, The Association for Education and Rehabilitation of the Blind and Visually Impaired Listserv. > > To post a message to all the list members, send an email to aernet@lists.aerbvi.org. > > Address list requests to: aernet-request@lists.aerbvi.org > > To unsubscribe from this list, go to http://lists.aerbvi.org/mailman/listinfo/aernet_lists.aerbvi.org and follow instructions to unsubscribe. Go to the same address to access the list archives. > _______________________________________________ > AERNet mailing list > AERNet@lists.aerbvi.org > http://lists.aerbvi.org/mailman/listinfo/aernet_lists.aerbvi.org